Daniel Cohen (2016) shares an insider view on what it takes to co-found a new robotics lab. In this episode, he also talks about the importance of prioritizing the fun stuff in life just as much as work, and tells current engineering students that communication is going to be a lot more important than they might think it will be. His advice is to not put too much pressure on yourself, take your time with the challenges you'll be facing, and enjoy the journey of improving your skills (in writing and communication or in anything else) every year.
Episode Transcript:
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Abigail:
Hello, everybody and welcome back to another episode of What's the word Eagle alumni spotlights podcast. I'm your host Abby and today we have a very special guest for you. Today we're joined with Daniel Cohen and Daniel, why don't you give us a little bit of background about yourself.
Daniel:
I was born raised in Phoenix, Arizona, I went to a local high school in Arizona and then I went to Embry Riddle and Prescott I had a scholarship to focus on robotics. So, I did my four years at Embry Riddle. And then I did some time at Microchip technologies. Rockwell Collins, I co-founded a robotics lab for a pistachio processing facility, then came back to Arizona to build a satellite branch of an automation distribution house named Neff power. And then I did my master’s at ASU. And then I decided to build another robotics lab for MKS instruments on aligning and assembling laser systems. So now I'm moving on to my next job at Brembo technologies for brake systems.
Abigail:
Oh, wow. And it sounds like you've had quite the journey to get where you are today.
Daniel:
Thank you. Yeah, it's been quicker and slower in a lot of different ways. So, it's been exciting.
Abigail:
Oh, yeah, I bet time really does fly and move slow at the same time. But now switching back to your time at Embry Riddle, what was your major when you were here?
Daniel:
So, it's robotics. It was mechanical engineering with a focus on robotics.
Abigail:
Do you have a favorite memory from your time at Embry Riddle if you'd like to share?
Daniel:
Yeah, I think it was my capstone working with my friends who I've developed for four years at that point, and then putting together something really special was exciting for me. And then being able to even publish it in a real academic sense was really exciting when I was so young. And I think that that was definitely outside the norm of A of an undergraduate experience.
Abigail:
Oh, yeah, that is definitely a wonderful experience at Embry Riddle gives to its students at the end of their four years here. But now I want to switch back to your jobs that you've worked before. What goes into creating a robotics lab, as you mentioned?
Daniel:
Yeah, I think that the number one question is you really have to have something on your mind that you really need done. So, if it's not burning a hole in your mind, and you don't feel like this is something that has to be complete, then that's really step number one is what you saw, the first time I did it was with pistachio processing. So, we were trying to call out or remove bad pistachios from this conveyor line. And it's about $60 million worth of pistachios per year Costco or Kirkland was like our number one client at the time, anything under the other than Wonderful Pistachios was going through my equipment. So, the question was that they had human beings at the time who were just manually sorting them, and it was becoming harder and harder. And you can't really scale that up. And it became difficult from the ownership standpoint. And when I came in, that was exactly the questions and comments we had was, you know, how are we going to do this as a scalable, that's why we have robotics. And that's where it always starts is, is there really a business case here that can drive the economics of an R&D facility into production. And that's really that bridge from starting from zero, and then you have to go into R&D. And then once you develop a product that you feel like actually has a real business case inside the company and saves the money, and could potentially increase scale, then that's something that you can like, bring other people on, and actually start to like, proliferate around the facility. So that was the first time I did it. I was young, I was like, 23, I think at the time, it was my first real job out of college. And I just walked into a blank building, just complete warehouse with nothing in it, and then just started growing from there and learning the learning automation, learning robotics on the job in that standpoint, and then figuring out how to like to fit it into an R&D capacity.
Abigail:
Oh, wow, that sounds like quite the process to go through. But I'm sure once at the very end of that process, when everything starts to come together and work together, it's very rewarding.
Daniel:
Yeah, I think that if you if you hold out all the way to the end feel like you you've made it, then I think that that's really difficult. And I feel like that's the normal thing to do is like, I'll know that I've made it when like, this thing's working perfectly. I think the better advice I would give people is that the rewarding aspects need to come like, internally from yourself very regularly, because you're doing stuff that's never been done before. And when you're the advice that I got from, like, the US Olympics, that they tell their athletes is that you should, you should cut your days up into a third, a third, a third. So, a third of the days are going to go well, a third of the days are going to be just normal and a third of them are just gonna go just wrong. And through regardless of the third, a third, a third, you have to still continue to tell yourself that like things are going to improve, you're going to do better, you're going to make those improvements matter. And then When you get to the end, it's gonna feel like relief for sure. But you also had this self-talk the entire way. Not that I'm an Olympic athlete, but when you're doing something that's never been done before, you really have to continue to motivate yourself throughout the process.
Abigail:
And that is a very good mindset to have actually, you got to reward yourself along the way, that way, you have the motivation to keep going. And I'm sure that this mindset that you've adopted can still be applied as a student in college, correct?
Daniel:
Yeah, I totally agree that it exists the exact same thing, I think that that's where I got it from was there's so many late nights that you're going to have, and they're going to be enjoyable, but some, a third of them are going to be a job, a third of them just are going to be regular, and then three of them are just going to be you know what they are. But I think that that's the same process is if you learn that through your undergraduate training, then it's going to apply directly and you can kind of graph that abilities on to a new experience, whether that's learning a new software language, or you need to learn a new CAD language, or this is just a whole new situation you're going to be in from a job standpoint, then I think that that mapping still functions is keep positive, keep yourself motivated through it, keep the self-talk high. And then like the rewards come more frequently, internally, so you're not like holding out for that one big piece of land, you can do that. And that's the goal. But you know, there's at least a ramp to it.
Abigail:
Yes, it is imperative that you treat yourself along the way to because it makes you more successful in the long run. And so, are you able to take this mindset that you adopted and change gradually over time from college and apply it into the workplace now?
Daniel:
Yeah, I think that that's definitely something that I learned when I was younger, and it totally applies. So, I'm doing a transition from jobs are now moving from MKS instruments where I did it the second time, I've built a robotics lab, scratch on a whole new problem, put together a team. And now I'm transitioning to Brembo, on a new braking system that they've developed. And I think that it's basically the exact same things over and over again, in terms of, you know, these are new problems, they haven't really been approached before, they could be six-year-old issue, people have never tried to automate something the way that they have or manufacture it or develop software for it in that way. And they're going to look to you to come in and be a source of enthusiasm, and also, you know, high academics to come in and solve the problem. And I think that from an undergraduate standpoint, or whether it's through my first job, that level of explanation that you have to do, and go into the detail to explain to upper management and leadership, and maybe the CEO exactly how you need to do something and solve your problem. Because at the end of the day, it's going to be about alignment. And if you can gain everyone's alignment on the situation, then you can kind of do a better job in general. So, you can get more staff, or you can have better allocation of staff. Or you can have the funds allocated differently, that's always very sensitive, the larger you go. So, the first time I did it, it was like, it was only a $60 million per year operation. And then I went to grad school, and it came back and they're like, well, our problem is about a billion dollars. So, you're gonna wrangle that that's I think, a larger number. And now I'm going to do it again with 3 billion for another company. So, I think that still just comes down to having that conversation with everyone understanding where everything's going to go and try to try to do the best you can to build a roadmap, at least at the beginning. But yeah, a little tangential. Kind of a complicated problem, generally speaking. Yeah, I would say that if you can graph the problem down to knowing that you have those three sequences, and you're going to have good days, bad days, and mediocre days, and you can continue to give yourself that self-talk that things are going to be positive, and there's a positive outlook on these subjects, then you're usually good to go. Don't go doom and gloom, it doesn't help anyone.
Abigail:
Perfect, perfect. And that is actually really good advice. And now let's switch gears a little bit. So, what does a typical day look like? As someone who works with robotics, and the components that go into robotics?
Daniel:
I would love to have early mornings, because I could like, you know, go for a workout, and have a good day and get those things done. But I would say that you expect to start about 9am, get things going by nine, you'll be in your first meeting around that time, you'll be discussing maybe what happened from the day before, or if it was a long weekend, you're going to try to figure out where kind of people left off and get everyone to resync. And then once you kind of resync, then you can have a real discussion about some technical subjects that you're in who you have at the time, you know, maybe something going well, and you want to figure out exactly how we can quantify it to put it into a document. Or maybe things are not going exactly as planned. And we need to figure out why. So that's where a group discussion can take place. So maybe you have an hour for that. You can expect that. Maybe every day even depending on how good it's going. And then you'll have some free time in the day to basically do your own software, develop PowerPoints, figure out where things are going and then let's assume that like a part doesn't show up on time or something. Some snafu starts happening then, and then you have kind of that midafternoon to try to work through that issue, and then try to recover from it. And then by like, two to four o'clock, you really need to start getting software down or getting something out the door for that day. So constant work is very important because we need to see constant improvement. And that's what people are always constantly judged by is, are we moving the needle? And how are we doing that? So that's why we have a very fast cadence is you turning a project around like this quickly, and only in a couple years, you have to maintain a high cadence, and that can be challenging, but that's kind of the norm.
Abigail:
Okay, so it sounds like you've gotten a good work routine, down and established.
Daniel:
Yeah, I try to have my own routine, I know that my teams like to have their own routines as well, being in the Silicon Valley, like, it's a very like late day routine, which is good for a lot of people. But not everyone enjoys that late night portion. So, if you push the schedule back too far, then people are up really late. It’s difficult. But I think that having your own routine college and trying to translate that to the real world is really good. So, if you'd like to work out, or you have something like that, a hobby that you'd like to do very regularly, totally keep applying that because it's super critical to keep those things. I like to fly fish. So, I scheduled that really far in advance I ski I scheduled that far in advance. And I just every year on the calendar, I'm like, this is the week that I'm going skiing. This is the week I'm going fly fishing. And I think that those really help every single year.
Abigail:
Oh, yeah, that is a necessity. You gotta give yourself a little mental break every now and then.
Daniel:
I try to Yeah, try to.
Abigail:
And now are you able to tie writing into your everyday work life as well?
Daniel:
Yeah, so the technical writing aspects of my job every are kept in constant. So, for the first one, where we're just working directly with the CEO, and that was very tight. So, but since then, as the opportunities in terms of the companies have grown. So, if you go from 60 million to a billion-dollar problem to a multibillion-dollar problem, you really have to communicate it better and better and better. And it may be slightly different, but it is much really just better. So, it's by PowerPoint, or by email, or it's by roadmap, or it's by flowchart or if it's in your software, or something embedded in the CAD that explains the circumstances. And those will come from tech writing, that I learned from an undergraduate. And it's all about just applying it better every year. So more concisely, more professionally, and more clearly, always generate better outcomes. For me personally, yeah, like PowerPoint slides are kind of like one of those things where it seems like it's an art, but it really is a science. And you'll just have to understand the tools and explain like, you can't have a dozen things on the same slide. Those are just crazy, you know, just bring the word count down, be more concise about the language, try to hit higher bullet points. There's been sometimes actually that, like, we removed, the punch line of the slide was like, was at the bottom, and it was like five slides in. And oh, it was an intro slide and then punch line. And it was like that was it. And it's like, if you're awake after that, then we can talk about how we got there. But like, we're going to just start with like, Intro what we did, and then punch line. And then that might be all you have for time today. For executive staff, they might not have more than 20 minutes, or 10 minutes. So, you gotta fit it to their schedule.
Abigail:
Right, so trying to make everything you write as clear and concise as possible.
Daniel:
Yes, exactly. Exactly. The point. Exactly. That's, I couldn't say it better. It's like an ever-achieving thing that you have to continue to push for because the staff that brought you in might not know the subject the same way that you do. And your job is to make sure that you're doing the best you can to explain why we're in the circumstances that we're in and try to make sure it's positive and that there's a positive outlook that we're going to do better. So that's kind of always the general goal is, why are we here? How are we going to get to the next step? And how is my team going to help you do that? So concisely as possible is definitely the answer always.
Abigail:
Okay, I gotcha. That is always a good thing to do when you're talking to superiors or anything like that always be concise. And now that leads me right into my final question for you today. Is there anything you wish you would have known in Embry Riddle that you could have taken into the workplace with you?
Daniel:
I think the best piece of advice that I could give people is that communication is going to be more critical than you think it is. Whether that's you writing an email or formalizing a PowerPoint, or putting something in your software, it's just super critical. And that's it's only going to get better from there. You may end up having face to face conversations with people and that results in a handshake deal that gets formalized. So, I would say the number one thing is you need to be super solid from an engineering standpoint, but you also need to sell yourself properly and understand that these are hard problems. A lot of the times people are being thrown into your and then just need to basically be able to present stuff that may have already been may have been created only a couple hours ago. And that's something that takes a lot of time. So don't put too much pressure on yourself to perform immediately. But give yourself basic goals to improve by and just say that we're going to get 1% better every week or something like that. And then by the time the year is over, you're actually in a really good situation.
Abigail:
And that is awesome advice. Remember not to put too much pressure on yourself Eagles while you were at Embry Riddle, everything will work out. And remember that communication is key, and it is the key to succeeding. But right now, we want to wrap up this episode and we want to give Daniel a big thank you for being on our podcast today.
Daniel:
Thank you. Thank you, guys. Appreciate it.
Abigail:
We hope you'll enjoy this episode and be sure to stay tuned for more if you're looking for more of our previous episodes. You can find them on our Spotify or on our YouTube channel if you haven't been caught up yet, but we hope you have a great week.
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Amelia:
This podcast is supported by the Department of Humanities and communication at Embry Riddle Aeronautical University in Prescott, Arizona. Abigail Bradberry is our host Matthew Haslam is our department chair. And I'm Amelia Chesley, Assistant Professor of professional writing the intro and outro music is Wander by Aylex. Find us on Spotify or on YouTube and reach out if you are a Prescott campus alum. We'd love to feature you in a future episode.
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